Ganesh
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Dear Magdi,
You touched on something key – “They are neutral thoughts which arise from the source, from consciousness. They become judgments upon getting infected by ignorance, by the belief in separation.” Am trying to relate this to experience. When being anchored in presence so to speak, i.e. when not seeing through the lens of separation, objects or people appear neutral, where there is no question or need for judgment. The same object or person seens from the point of ‘me’ automatically leads to thoughts of comparison and judgment. Is this what you mean? Please clarify.Wow. Makes sense. I love the words “The sage is always addressing consciousness and not another.”
Two other points I meant to ask earlier but slipped through, and I’ll ask them anyway now..
How about Fear. When identified with the body, consciousness appears to fear not just physical danger but equally if not more, psychological danger. Does the Sage fear anything?Lastly about thinking: As people we spend a lot time trapped in mental loops of endless self-referential chatter. One could be peeling an orange, and eating it, but totally unaware. And when engrossed in work/task/sport, we lose sight of ourselves, but there is a subtle doership narrative underneath, I guess. How is it for the Sage in both these cases?
Thank you!
Thank you Magdi. Makes a lot of sense.
Out of curiousity, these questions about the Sage, are about the phenomenal realm. Sorry for the multiple questions. Yes/No/Short answers are fine too!
How does a Sage see and move in the phenonmenal realm?
To him, are objects seen as objects or consciousness (oneself)?
To him, Are people seen as people or oneself?
Does he experience Ups and Downs in life like others do?
Does he experience Pain or Pleasure?
Does a Sage have desires? Goals?
How about likes and dislikes?
The Waking dream is seen as such, by the Sage, but how about sleeping dreams? How about deep sleep? Are these different for the Sage?
In the role of seeking an end to suffering, we are attracted to the Sage. Does the Sage feel helpless when he sees us NOT realizing who we are?
How can the Sage practically help one who is stuck in the phenomenal realm to see through the illusion?Love
GaneshThank you Magdi. Makes sense. Can we say that Surrender is not a verb, not something that I do, but rather a realization? Meaning, there was a time when I used to make ‘surrendering’ my sadhana. But I struggled with my inability to do so, and the resulting guilt of failure. But over time, as it becomes clear that ‘i’ as a separate entity is not real, and That which is and Knows it is, IS the only reality, the decider-in-chief, Surrender seems to happen. It is like, when I let go, things have a way of working out. Even if they don’t appear to go according to my expectations, there is the understanding that as a limited ‘me’ I don’t have access to the bigger picture, the greater wisdom to judge outcomes.
Dear Magdi,
It can be frustrating, this game. We say ‘Consciousness’ but it is also the one writing this, the one that feels suffering, the one asking what to do. Oh well. Keep the inquiry going I guess.Thank you Magdi. I am glad you are not allowing me to deviate from the Truth, rather than explain the mechanics and substance of an illusion!
“What are you assuming yourself to be when you ask this question” – A character in the dream, with a dream question about the nature of the dream. An impossibility. I see.
Love the examples!
Thank you Magdi. I get it. Your words remind me of the verse from the Gita, which you often quote too: The unreal has no existence; the real never ceases to be. (Chapter 2, Verse 16). The questions are fewer than they used to be, but there is a curiousity (mostly academic), to know or feel the substance of this seemingly alive and throbbing world of sensations and thought, as Consciousness. Does Consciousness morph into all this, appear as all this? It reminds me of another verse in the Gita (9.4) “All this universe is pervaded by Me in My unmanifest form.”
Can this even be understood by the mind?
Thank you Magdi, for the uncompromising message that aligns with the Truth.
“It is Consciousness which is experiencing itself in all experiences. There is no-thing else” (Noumenal) Yes, there is no doubt there.
“Our perceptions are intimate with the perceiving aspect, one with consciousness.” (Phenomenal) Yes, there is no doubt there either.There is still some un-clarity about how the noumenal and phenonmenal aspects co-exist. i.e. If all there is, is Consciousness then where is the question of ‘Our Perceptions’ ? But then when I ask myself the question, ‘What is the reality of the un-clarity’ ? That too must be Consciousness, Right? Then no problem..
As an aside, I find metaphors like the ocean no doubt, helpful initially, but they don’t go further. It is more like an Ocean that has somehow given itself the power to appear (to itself) as ‘waves’ where each wave believes ‘I am a wave, not the ocean.’
Amazing. Thank you for answering the question and beyond. How nice it would be to come out of this identification game once and for all!
Love
GaneshYour explanation resonates really well. Just to confirm, this seems to be the pattern then:
Awareness -> Me-ing -> Noticing -> Awareness
Nowhere in this pattern is ‘Effort’. And you are saying that this Noticing, is a result of our Love for the Truth. The more it is, the more is the Noticing.
Also nowhere in this pattern is a separate ‘Me’ doing the ‘me-ing’. So it is all a play of Awareness?
